The Best Sellers
Welcome to 'The Best Sellers' Podcast! Hosted by Alyssa Grelak, this series pulls back the curtain on the world of B2B sales, showcasing the strategies, techniques, and mindsets of the industry's standout sellers. Each episode features in-depth conversations with top-tier sales professionals, unveiling the secrets that propel them to the top of the leaderboards.
Whether you're an aspiring salesperson, an established professional, or just curious about the art of selling in the tech realm, this podcast is your gateway to invaluable insights that could redefine your approach. Dive in, learn, and be inspired to sell better. Don't forget to subscribe for regular updates and join our growing community of sales enthusiasts!
The Best Sellers
Michael Treb | Contract Packaging - TRG Company
Join the ranks of retail revolutionaries with Michael Treb, the leader of Business Development for S-P-A at TRG Company's. In this episode, we're bringing you to the front lines of contract packaging , where Michael strategizes, innovates, and mentors his way through the complex world of packaging for major brands and retailers. You'll gain unparalleled access to his insights on crafting turnkey display solutions, the nuances of relationship building, and how to tailor communication to transform a cold call into a warm handshake.
Venture into the heart of the customer relationship maze as Michael sheds light on his tactful dance with potential clients. This episode is a treasure trove of strategic wisdom, revealing how to cultivate trust and personalize service offerings in a market that thrives on intimacy and transparency. It's not about the pushy sales pitch here; it's about becoming the go-to confidant for businesses ready to outsource and scale. With Michael as our guide, you'll learn the art of pricing with integrity and the significance of internal team synergy to ensure every customer feels like the only one.
Wrap up your experience with a behind-the-scenes look at the daily grind that keeps a sales team at peak performance. Michael divulges his commitment to client availability, his pro tips on balancing tech with the timeless charm of day planners, and the weekly rituals that keep his team ahead of the curve. You'll walk away from this episode with a playbook on how to maintain strong partnerships, stay productive without losing the personal touch, and ultimately, be a valued partner in the ever-evolving contract packaging industry.
Well, welcome back everyone for another episode of the Best Sellers Podcast. I'm here today with Michael Trebb, who is currently at SPA at TRG Company. Very excited to have you here today. Welcome, Michael.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so before we get started, I always like to have a bit of a baseline for the folks who are listening to understand what it is that you're selling. So if you could do just a quick little intro on yourself and then tell us about your company, what you sell, who your customers are, I think that'd be really helpful for everyone as we get going here.
Speaker 2:Sure, no problem. For most of my career I've sold the service of contract packaging, which is the manual labor or the equipment used to pack out into a retail form, across all genres, a product to go out into the market. On the periphery of that I've also sold distributed packaging materials, whether it's corrugate, chipboard, films, labels etc. Everything that goes around the contract packaging aspect of it. So the service of contract packaging and distributed product Now SPA, is a 300,000 square foot contract packaging facility where we do a great deal of confectionery, food displays, pack outs, along with the normal non-confectionery food, non-food items where we'll pack them out into blisters, shrink, wrap, simple assembly or kitting. We have 300,000 square feet, 100,000 of that is temperature controlled where we can do the food items and we have the certifications for AIB, also FDA as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's amazing. Who is buying this? When you say that, to me that screams CPG brands. But talk to me a little bit about who you're selling to every day.
Speaker 2:Well, that's very accurate. It is mostly consumer products going out to the big retailers and we have relationships with all those retailers directly. So what we do that is very different and very new to me is with some of the large retailers. We sell directly to them. We will purchase. For instance, if we have a display, a customer has a display, but I don't want to name names. But let's say a retailer wants to have multiple vendors on that display, we will go out, purchase from those vendors, the items, design the display, put multiple vendors into that display and then send it to the retailer and sell them that finished good as a turnkey item. There's no markup on our end, so everybody's getting the same amount they would be if they were dealing directly. It's a service I've never seen done before by a contract packager, but we do it very often Now. The good thing about that it also gives us an inside view as to what those retailers want to see this year for 2024, for their displays, for their counter space, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so cool. I mean, I work in CPG and retail have for a long time and it's really exciting to see I'm more on the digital side, but it's really exciting to see the things that are taking place in the store. So I, as a consumer, walk in, I see different displays across the entire store and you're a big part of that, so that's a really great tangible way to view that.
Speaker 2:And you're seeing an uptick in that as well. Now that we're through 2020, 2021, more people are out, more people want to be out shopping rather than doing the order online, so that's a big part of the marketing aspect. So, yes, we're seeing an uptick in that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, talk to me a little bit about your experience in sales. You know you have decades of experience specifically in contract packaging and have been in this world, but tell me how long you've been selling. A little bit about your journey, where you started to where you are today and and we'll go from there.
Speaker 2:Okay, I've been in sales in this genre for at least 26 years now. I started out at a small family-owned company and was brought in as a first non-family member to be in sales, started selling, started focusing on the contract packaging, achieved some success blind luck, whatever you want to call it and then was asked to and created a sales staff. So I created a staff there. They became successful. After 19 years there I went and moved on to some other locations larger companies for contract packaging as well and did a lot of mentoring.
Speaker 2:I've always achieved the goals that I set for myself. As far as a yearly goal and I think about that I don't know that I missed that um ever. At the end of the year I typically would exceed what I wanted as my goal and I normally set somewhere around a 20 increase um. So I didn't miss that. But my favorite thing has always been mentoring and working with the staff and helping them succeed. I really enjoy seeing sales people that I've not created but mentored become successful and enjoy that aspect of work, because when you're really successful like that, it doesn't feel so much like work.
Speaker 1:So, hearing you, you've been both an individual contributor and a sales leader, kind of back and forth, and that's fantastic. And to know that you've always hit quota and continually tried to drive 20% year over year growth goals Fantastic. That takes me to my first really deep dive question, because if you have those intense goals, whether you're growing 20%, 50%, that screams a lot of relationships that you're driving through, but also pipeline management. So for me, especially in the way of contract packaging, any type of manufacturing environment where you have those longer lead times, you have to really build up those relationships with customers and have those orders coming in. So talk to me a little bit about how you prioritize and manage what I'll refer to as your pipeline you may not refer to it that way, but your sales pipeline of how you think that those deals are going to come in and those orders from your customers, whether it is the CPG or the retailer.
Speaker 2:Well, that is the painful part of contract packaging, because you never know when an order is going to come in. It is totally, completely dictated by the customer. It's a long sales cycle. You do not go into co-packing and thinking, oh, I'll have an order in a month. You have to develop that relationship and it could take as long as a year. So you have to put in the groundwork, you have to do your due diligence and develop that relationship.
Speaker 2:And once the order you get an order, there's no guarantee there'll be a second order, even if you do it perfectly, because it depends on their business and how busy they are or not. What the reason was, they kicked it out to you. So you've got to continually be working with this customer but have three more, four more you're working with to fill that void, because it is very much a roller coaster as the orders come in from different customers and you've got to fill those low spots, if you will, on a weekly, monthly basis, with a plethora of other customers that may have the same style. Now, perfect world. You get a large customer who you've spent time with, developed a relationship, you've done one-off orders, who want to go under contract, for three years, let's say and you know, then forecast it out what their needs are on a monthly basis. So then that's a wonderful thing because you can count on that work and then you're filling the gaps with the other customers. That's best case scenario in contract packaging.
Speaker 2:I was fortunate that at the most busy time I had three customers under contract, so there was a consistency monthly what we were doing. And there's a double-edged sword. If you have three customers under contract and they are the bulk of your work, you don't want to in any way ignore your smaller customers that fill those gaps. So I would always try to make my contacts feel like they were my only customer. I never talked about other customers. When they call me, I answer the phone. When they send me an email, I respond. I can't say immediately, but if I respond in more than 30 minutes I'm angry with myself, because I truly, truly believe it's that old axiom that it's not the big that eat the small, it's the fast that eat the slow. I hate being slow. I want them to feel like they're important. I want them to feel like we have a relationship where they're calling me because they need something. And when you need something, now is way better than later.
Speaker 1:From what you're describing, it sounds like in the contract packaging and distributed packaging. Regardless of what side you're on, it's all custom. You never know when it's going to come in. You have a lot of variation and it sounds like volatility. Is there seasonality in there too?
Speaker 2:Yes, there can be If it's. If it's, for instance, automotive, yeah, there's. There's some seasonality, uh, health and beauty, the ones I worked with, absolutely. You had Mother's Day, you had Valentine's Day and you had back to school, so those were the really really busy times. But there's, others where you would think it would be a busy time and it was just pretty steady. So it depends 100% on what the category is you're working in.
Speaker 1:One of my questions just sparked from hearing you is how do your customers know to come to you? How do they find out about you? Or are you reaching out to them? Because if they suddenly have a need, I'm assuming they have a couple of core vendors that they work with, but you're trying to go in and gain that business.
Speaker 2:What's your?
Speaker 1:strategy for just getting noticed, getting in the door with them.
Speaker 2:That is really, really the hard part of contract packaging, because selling a service that a lot of people don't even know what it is, they don't even know it exists, and most contract packagers don't have contract packaging in the name of their company. So it could be whatever the name is, but it doesn't say contract packaging. So you really have to look at the type of business and see if it seems like it might be a good candidate for work to be outsourced. Whether you're watching the LinkedIn, you're reading the normal printed materials that come out about business. In your area, is there a company that is getting very, very busy? They're just booming. Well, maybe that would be a good one to reach out to, because maybe they're at capacity, maybe they have space issues, maybe they're running into labor issues that we would be a good source to kick out some of that work.
Speaker 2:Now there are companies that are familiar with contract packaging. They use multiple contract packages. Those are easier and harder. They're easier to make the introduction hey, I do contract packaging. I understand you may use some. How can I get on that radar of doing some quoting for you?
Speaker 2:Well, now though, yes, they know what you do, they know what to expect, but now you're competing against the in-house not the in-house, but the incumbents, if you will, who already do it for them. So now you're going into a competitive situation versus you're a brand new player, they've never heard of contract packaging and you're bringing a solution. So it's very difficult, but that's what I've done Networking, talking to people. I do some trade shows to get our name out there, to share what services we offer. But there's still a large amount of people that are buyers, they're procurement managers They've never heard of contract packaging. They don't know it exists. And then there's that scary thing about okay, that's a really great idea, but you want me to send you our product and you're going to take care of it. That's a very scary proposition for a lot of folks. So that's where the relationship and the integrity comes from that you have to establish before they ever give you order one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and trust is important in any buyer-seller relationship, but here it sounds even more fundamental, especially because there's an awareness problem if they aren't familiar with the industry, if they've never bought contract packaging before.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And it probably feels a little better if they meet you through a referral or you know someone in your network. There's more trust associated with that.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:On its face, but can you share a little bit about the strategies that you use or a specific example that you, when you get that introduction and you're building that, trust what you, what you do, especially if someone is a little bit skeptical of moving forward?
Speaker 2:I don't believe in one size fits all ever. So if I get the opportunity to sit down with you, I'm going to do a lot of different things, and last on that list is talk. I'm going to listen. I'm going to observe what's on your desk. I want to see what is your interest. If you have pictures of your kids on your desk. If you have pictures of dogs up on your desk, if you have pictures of dogs up on your wall, I'm going to find a point of interest. I want to be able to have a conversation. Oh, I have dogs. Oh, you have kids. Oh, I do too.
Speaker 2:I will talk about virtually everything but business, because I want to develop a relationship, because in contract packaging there's nothing tangible I can bring in and show you. I'm not going to hold a widget in my hand and say isn't this a wonderful widget? You love this widget, and here's what I can sell you that widget, for All I can say is I am your representative here for contract packaging and you're buying me. You're not buying the product, you're buying the service that. I am your representative here for contract packaging and you're buying me. You're not buying the product, you're buying the service that I am going to offer you. So I need to know that person as best I can. And that's how I do it I listen, I'll observe.
Speaker 2:I can give you an example of. I was sitting in a buyer's office. We had just sat down, we had met before, we had a nice relationship, and we had just sat down and her phone rang and she looked down at the phone and said, oh God, I don't want to talk to that guy. I thought to myself immediately. I never want to be that guy. So I am the easiest person in the world. You're busy, I'll let you go. I'm not going to try to keep you on the phone. I don't go, take care of your business. I'll get back to you in a couple of days. There is nothing so pressing that I'm going to be the pain in your right. I don't want to be that guy. I want to be the guy you want to talk to, that when you need him, you know he's going to answer and he's not difficult to get off the phone, because our sales are not one and dones. It's a long time, long-term relationship that we're trying to do to establish and that's how I go about it.
Speaker 1:Speaking of not having a widget, when you're having that discussion, you're going in, you're listening to the customer. Again, everything is so custom, their display, their shrink wrap needs, whatever. Whatever they're doing, you have to fully understand that. So when you go in, you're meeting someone again for the first time, you're having those conversations, you're getting to know them on that personal level. How do you make that transition to then talk about? You know what do you need? How can I provide that and give that confidence without a physical thing to touch and feel that you will be able to deliver that?
Speaker 2:If they take me out onto their floor and they show me what they're doing, I can then start. I'll start talking about oh, I see what you're doing there and talk intelligently. Because of my experience we could do this and this is how we would do that. We could a variety pack oh, I can put that variety pack onto our conveyors and we'd line it up this way and we'd bundle wrap it this way. Is that how you want it? You want that bundle wrap printed is oh, I see what you're doing there. That's got a barcode on it. It's speaking their language through my history. If I'm speaking their language, that gives them a sense that I have some credibility. I know what I'm talking about. If they just have samples on their desk, I'll do the same thing, but then I'll take those samples with me. I said let me get you a number, Let me get you some ideas how we could do this better, faster, stronger. I then do that as quickly as I can. I'm going to have my production people.
Speaker 2:I always have a sense of urgency, so I try to instill that in my production people. I don't want to make my customer wait a week to get a number, to wait a week to get some ideas. If it's a simple, straightforward deal 24 hours I want to get you a number. I want to get you some thoughts. If it's more complicated, okay, 48.
Speaker 2:Beyond that, I want to have conversation as to why it's taking longer than normal. Because, again, I think there's a sense of urgency. When someone needs help and you can get back to them in 24 or 48 hours with an answer and some numbers, it instills a sense of these people are competent, they know what they're doing, they're prepared. I want them to feel important, I want them to feel like, again, they're my only customer. So why should it take more than a couple of days to get this together for you? If it takes too long? Are you too busy? Do you have capacity to do that work for me? How are you going to fit that into your schedule? It's a fine line you have to walk.
Speaker 1:Through these conversations that I've been having with sellers and lots of different industries, different types of customers, that actually is a common thread through all of them that everybody has their own very unique style, that they're very transparent. This, this, may or may not work for other people, but it works for me and it has been success. I've been successful using it. Some things are just not you said it authentic to you and who you are as a person, and that's really the beautiful thing about a lot of these discussions. There are common themes and threads that go throughout, but everybody has different tactics and tools in their toolbox that they actually pull out. One thing that you said there you know speaking their language, really understanding, not just by listening, but by seeing and giving that confidence to them, by having what I'll call a very collaborative sales process.
Speaker 1:You know you're not going in and saying this is the way it has to be, these are the things that we can do. It's what do you need? Show me, let's talk about it, and then how can I help you understand that vision and make sure that we are on the same page before we start to actually deliver something? That's a really beautiful process and I'm sure again, helps not just build that trust, but everything that you're talking about and building that relationship. Not just build that trust, but everything that you're talking about and building that relationship. It just helps you go farther down that path. And with that, I'm sure that you've run into customers or potential customers that really don't align or they have objections to what you're recommending or you're not on the same page. So talk to me about how you handle those moments and your go-to method or your mindset when facing that resistance or skepticism.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I have a go-to method, again, I think, because everybody is unique. But I'll give you examples of what has occurred. There's the rare occasion where it's so not aligning that whatever you're earning off the work you're doing simply is not worth the angst that's being created In co-packing. I never wanted to be the lowest price. I never wanted to be the highest price either. I wanted to offer good value for the money. There are many customers who are always going to look at the co-packing and not beat you up but they're going to look at the bottom line number. Okay, what are you going to charge me per piece? Oh, I've got a guy that's less If they do that, and I'll give you an example. Okay, I believe there was a time I quoted something I want to say at 13 cents. It was a very small, simple assembly, large volume, 13 cents and the buyer said well, I've got somebody who's willing to do it for seven and a half. I said, oh, I'd do it for that too. Go ahead, I don't blame you, I would use them too. I hope it works out really well. We're here if you need anything. But good luck with that. I wasn't being short about it, it was a good. I hope it works out great. That's a great price. Two months later, guess who called hey, they can't do it for that. They've actually raised their price higher than where you were. Can you still honor the 13 and a half cents? Absolutely, did it for years. From that point on, we had that business for years.
Speaker 2:So I stick to my guns if I'm comfortable and I feel confident in the number. 99% of the time I do feel confident in the number because I look at every project. I don't just pass it on and let somebody price it and then come back and go. That's the number. If I see something that doesn't make sense on that number, I will challenge my production people. I will challenge my costing.
Speaker 2:People Say, hey, explain this, why is this a quarter? I thought it would be more like 20 cents. Well, mike, there's this fold here. That's very difficult. Oh, I get it. So when I present that to my customer and he says the same thing, I would have said, gee, I thought that had been 20 cents. Well, dave, there's this fold. Let me show you. This fold's really difficult and if I'm folding that, that's taking extra time. So that's why it's a little bit more, if you can improve upon that or if you'd like me to improve upon that fold by providing that piece, let me look at that. So I'm not beating him up. I'm saying here's the problem. If you can fix it, great. If you want me to try to fix it, I will.
Speaker 2:Again, it's not, here's the deal. I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm trying to build a relationship and develop it as such that we are not vendors, we're partners in their business that they can go to to get something done. I want them to view us as an outside, inner department of their own company, if you will. Right, and that's really the way I present it. I don't want to be this sales guy, I don't want to be a vendor, I want to be a valued partner, ongoing. Now, there's certainly times when stuff goes south. Everybody's going to make mistakes. Certainly times when stuff goes south, everybody's going to make mistakes. I think the best thing you can do there is hey, fess up, catch it before they see it, bring it to their attention, tell them how you avoid ever doing it again and make it right, because no one's perfect.
Speaker 2:We're all human. There's a lot of human involvement in contract packaging, so there is going to be things that go wonky. That's why we have a very strong quality control department. We want to catch it and fix it before it ever leaves our door. If we screw up, let it be in-house and we'll fix it. I don't want my customer to have to deal with that, but that does happen from time to time. You make it right. You bring it to their attention. You make it right.
Speaker 1:You bring it to their attention, you make it right. Yeah Well, that's a lesson for life, right, you know taking accountability and relationships. You have to be honest. You know that's like a whole nother podcast man. We could be there for hours just talking about all the things you need to know how to function and have healthy relationships across the board.
Speaker 2:Stay tuned for next week's episode. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:Going on a different topic, but totally makes sense and you diving deep into the contract details, understanding each facet of why something is priced that way, the level of knowledge, first of all, from all your years of experience in the industry, detail oriented nature, to know, step by step, what's building up that price, whether it's 13 cents or I'm sure you have things that are a couple dollars, hundreds of dollars.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you are you, you own that, you're the quarterback of that entire process and that is a that's a lot to manage. And I know you've talked a little bit through this about your internal teams that you're partnering with and talking to. You know, tell me a little bit about those relationships, how you work together, who all the people are that you were working with to really satisfy the needs of all of your customers.
Speaker 2:You always have a costing associate who does your costs when you bring in something to be assembled or shrink or whatever the case may be. That's the person that you've got to explain to them what needs to be done in a very detailed way, and they will do their time studies, figure out how much time is involved, how many units can go through a piece of equipment. If it's something that requires equipment, I'll also share that then with customer service. Customer service is truly the brains of the outfit. They really are. Customer service is truly the brains of the outfit. They really are, and I will promote them and elevate them every opportunity I can get, because they're't want it to come to me. They want to go to customer service because they're going to enter the order. They're going to be calling up the customer saying, hey, I still need this piece of information, I need this. I'm going to give you this, I'm going to send this over to you. We're going to start production two days from now. They're going to have that ongoing every day, and so I will promote them huge. I'm appreciative of them. Huge because, again, they're taking care of my customer. If I am doing what they do on a daily basis, I'm not selling anything because I'm going to be consumed handling that customer. My job is to sell, so I need to be able to to, with full confidence, kick that over to customer service and know that they're going to handle it the way I would handle it.
Speaker 2:So when I would develop new customer service people with a new customer, whatever the case may be they kind of would pick up on how I operate. Um, I stayed out of their way. I I didn't tell them how to do it, but they saw how I handled the customer, how I spoke to the customer. I would give them all the information I had. If they ran into a problem, if they were getting stonewalled for whatever reason, they know that they could call me. Hey, michael, this is what's going on. Could you make that call? Absolutely, so I'd reach out to the customer and get it done.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be their advocate but also their biggest supporter, and it's a self-serving thing. They're helping me, so I'm absolutely going to support them as best I can. Now the costing associates in operations, and there's a lot of times when sales and operations will bang heads, and that's fine, it's a good banging of heads, it's a good pull and push, if you will, to make sure we're looking at things the way it really needs to be, because when I'm dealing with them, I am, in fact, the face of the customer. That's the shoes I'll wear. I'm respectful always. They have jobs to do. I'll disagree when I need to disagree. It doesn't have to be contentious, it's business.
Speaker 1:Right and modeling behavior, showing them. You know, here's how I run this relationship with the customer, and not explicitly saying that you want them to do it that way, but you build up that relationship on the other side, from internal, in order to do what your ultimate goal is, which is supporting the customer, building the relationship, maintaining credibility, especially in the industry that you're in.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the other thing that just occurred to me, that I don't ever segregate myself as the director of sales or the guy who's doing. I never segregate myself. I was always with my customer service people.
Speaker 1:I was always out on the floor.
Speaker 2:I'd walk out there If I went in the office. I was on the floor talking to everybody, talking to the plant manager, what's going on, developing that relationship as well? So it was never of oh Michael's here, oh no, I don't like that. We're all trying to get to the same goal. My role is different than their role, but they're equally important and that's really how I really truly handle it, that way.
Speaker 1:So shifting gears just a little bit. One of the questions that I wanted to ask you was specific to habits, things that you incorporate into your routine, that you do whether it's daily, weekly, monthly to keep yourself organized, keep yourself on top of your customer needs. You know what are the things that you've instituted that work for you, that you feel like you know really contribute to your successful performance.
Speaker 2:There was a gentleman it's the first company I worked for the family owned. He was the father. Great, great guy, really liked him and every once in a while he'd come and sit down and just chat with me and he told me once we were talking about it was a Monday and we were talking about what we did over the weekend. And I was telling him how, yeah, last night I started making my schedule for this week and touching base on what I wanted to do and he just started laughing. He says always start your week on Sunday night, like what?
Speaker 1:do you?
Speaker 2:mean he goes. I always started my week Sunday night. I would take some time Sunday night and get myself ready for the week. I'm like that's brilliant, I mean it doesn't take but a little bit of time. You're thinking about it anyway. So that's one thing I've always done and I credit him for reinforcing that. I start my week on Sunday night, take some time, kind of set my schedule for the week, what I want to do, who's the items I want to hit on, what do I need to follow up on, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2:The other thing is, again, my phone is never off. My email is never off. The only time I am not answering it email phone is if I'm asleep, which drives my wife nuts.
Speaker 2:but it's okay, I want to be available. I make myself available. All my customers know I'm available. I have customers that are on the West Coast, so of course I'm going to be answering the phone at 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock my time. That's okay. So that's another thing I do. I am always. I am in front of my computer, typically by 7.30 every morning. I may be in my pajamas, but I'm on my computer at 7.30 in the morning, seeing, did anybody email me?
Speaker 2:what's going on? Checking my schedule, what do I have to do today? I tend to want to be desk time in the morning and if I'm visiting I'm on the road in the afternoon. I don't want my salespeople to be. If we were in a situation where they should be, I don't want them in the office. You're not selling. If you're in the office, get out, see people, network, talk to people. You're not doing that in the office. What you're doing in the office, what you're doing in the office, is talking to other salespeople going. Gee, I wish I was out selling, go sell. I don't care if you're on the golf course, you're networking. You're talking to people.
Speaker 2:Um, it's just that simple I there's no secret formula, I don't think. I think it's putting in the hours, putting in the time and blind luck right place, right time.
Speaker 1:And that's the truth of it.
Speaker 2:There's no great. There's people that have talent. Right, they have the talent where they can start up conversations. They just come across with an ability to read people and see what they're thinking and understand. That's a talent you can't teach. That. That's a talent. Beyond that, we're talking. That's all we're doing. We're talking and, hopefully, listening.
Speaker 1:Yes, and listening, talking, and listening, and listening, talking and listening. When you're, you know, sitting down starting your day on Sunday, you have your, you know planning prep time in the mornings, or you're in office computer time in the morning. I love the way you're talking about cadencing your, your day. Is there anything specifically that you're using or relying on in terms of technology or tools?
Speaker 2:You're going to laugh. Back in the day, at the family-owned company, everyone was given a day planner and we would write down every day what we're going to be doing. I can't go to sleep at night. Honest, honest, I cannot go to sleep tonight If I've got something I'm doing tomorrow, if I don't write it down. If I write it down, I'm good, I can put it to bed, literally. I don't. I know it's there waiting for me. I still do that. You think I'm kidding. Here it is. I still use them. It's good for a year Exactly. I'm holding up.
Speaker 1:We're both holding up our planners. I uniquely understand. Yes.
Speaker 2:And I will put it away after the year and I'll get a new one and start from scratch. I just I like having that Now. That being said, if I'm scheduling things, like I do use Teams, I'll schedule stuff on Teams just to have it on there to remind me, but it's redundant because I've also written it down. But, being that I'm spending so much time on my laptop that sometimes I'll use that as a reference as well. So just Teams and my day planner, that's it. I know that's old school, but it's what I'm comfortable with and truly I am very comfortable in my own skin, which is, I think, why I'm able to do what I do. If I wasn't, I don't know that I could perform the way I do.
Speaker 1:So I'm in a space where technology and tools run rampant in the sales space, so to hear you say that it is that simplistic is kind of a marvel and a curiosity. But a question that pops up on top of my mind as you say that is your leadership team. What are they? What questions are they asking you and how do you update them on what you're doing and what you're potentially going to be bringing in? Because I'm sure they have those questions right. How, what does that look like?
Speaker 2:Well that that's funny too, because I was at a company that used what was it, I believe? Hubspot, and that was nice. Nobody else has one that I've worked not currently, not before. They don't have that, which is horrifying in the sense that they have no way of tracking that. But it's also kind of interesting that they just count on the sales staff to do their due diligence and share what I do on a weekly basis, and it's just because I feel that they are owed this information. I will give them a full length email. I will give them a full length email. What did I do? What's hot and who am I working on? It takes, you know, 30 minutes to do that and I send it to the GM, so he's aware and we go from there.
Speaker 2:I don't. When I had staffs, I didn't require that. I also wasn't big and I'm not an advocate of the 4 pm Friday meeting or the 8 am Monday morning meeting. Without being crass, I'll just say I'm not an advocate. I had meetings with my staff every day, but they didn't know they were having meetings, because I had conversations with them individually every day and it was about this, that and the other thing. But through those I would draw. What are you working on?
Speaker 1:Where is this at?
Speaker 2:Hey, what's going on with that guy? We had conversations. I don't need to sit down in a formal meeting with six people going. And what did you do today, johnny? No, we're adults, we're supposed to be out there doing our thing and you know what doesn't lie. Numbers don't lie. I'll see what you did this year, I'll see what you did this month, so you can spin whatever yarn you'd like to If the numbers aren't there. The numbers aren't there. If you're on the golf course every day and the numbers are there, have fun, hit them along. The numbers are there. I'm good and that's the truth of it. So again, in that way maybe I'm a little bit of a rebel, but I would rather have conversations with my staff and keep it informal, because I know what it's like to be a salesperson. I know how painful a meeting at whatever time, where you're sitting there for an hour and there is zero ROI in that meeting for me as a salesperson. I know how painful, those are.
Speaker 2:So I don't do it. That's not to say that there aren't times when we have to have a sit down to go over something. That's fine. But they talk to me every day and they don't realize we're having a meeting, but we're having a good meeting and we're probably being more productive than we would otherwise. Is it take time out of my day? Yeah, but I'm OK. I'm having conversations with my staff. I'm good with that. That's part of my day. It's what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1:What I hear is exactly what you said earlier we're all adults. You're treating your team like they're adults and watching their performance, which is in sales. One of the only real indicators that you really need what's the revenue that you're bringing in? One of the only real indicators that you really need what's the revenue that you're bringing in? And again, building relationships, just this time internally and in a different way.
Speaker 2:There's different types of sales, right. There are sales where it's a one-off. There are sales where you're just picking up the phone and calling a thousand people and they want you to make a hundred calls a day. That's not what this is. This is big boy sales, and so I treat them like big boys.
Speaker 1:Okay, nothing wrong with that. And you're right. Every, every sale is different, every industry is different, every customer is different. As we, as we close, I'm thinking about the people who may be listening, who weren't aware of contract packaging and who have learned a lot through this discussion, not just about the industry and the buyers, but about the process. Is there anything that you think you should share or you want to make sure is conveyed around your process, your methodology that has made you successful as a sales professional in this world and industry?
Speaker 2:Whether we're doing blisters, shrink, kitting, collating, whatever the case may be, I have always looked at the products that come in for my customers as mine, and I treat them and want them treated as if it was mine, because they really aren't trusting us to take care of it.
Speaker 2:So I've looked at it that way and internally I am their face. I represent them at my company Because they can't be there on a daily basis. It's my job to be their representative and that's really the way I do it. And that's not saying I'm out there yelling at people. It's like I'm checking on it. I'm making sure it's being done right. Are we getting it on time? Is it getting the numbers we need to hit? It's just that's how I've done it. If they want someone to take care of their product and give them more space internally or more labor available internally or free up supervisory time, you know that's when you look at a co-packer and I would say, if you're choosing a co-packer, price shouldn't be first. It should be deliverables, quality control and who is their guy that they have to count on to take care of their business. Then price. And that's not me saying it, that's what I've heard from many of my customers how they had to look at it.
Speaker 1:And I'm always available.
Speaker 2:They can always call me. I'm happy to have conversations, even if they're only thinking about it.
Speaker 1:Call somebody have conversations, even if they're only thinking about it. Call somebody, yeah Well, michael, thank you so much. I've learned a lot myself just about contract packaging and everything that you deal with on a day-to-day out basis, but to hear how you work on behalf of your customers and have this true obsession with making sure that you are an extension of them and they have that ability to have a long-term relationship with you because of the way that you treat them in their business is really a beautiful thing. So thank you so much for sharing.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Of course, and for everyone tuning in tune in next time for another episode of the Best Sellers.